1 Topic by mold

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Topic: Deception. And Bullshit.

The New York Senator who introduced Bush said something along the lines of "Some people will question why we liberated Iraq. Some people still ask about weapons of mass destruction. On September 11th we learned that a weapon of mass destruction can come in the form of a box-cutter."

Frankly, this disturbs me.

First off, he is indirectly drawing a fake connection between Saddam and 9/11. A trick the Republicans have been using since the tragedy. And it's worked. Second of all, by listing a box cutter as a WMD he is basically saying that anyone, and anything armed with a toothpick could be a threat, great enough to go to war- therefore, not only disregarding that we DIDN'T find WMD, but justifying the Iraq war and any following wars using 9/11- which is low, and sick.

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2 Reply by Ender

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

The New York Senator who introduced Bush said something along the lines of "Some people will question why we liberated Iraq. Some people still ask about weapons of mass destruction. On September 11th we learned that a weapon of mass destruction can come in the form of a box-cutter."

Frankly, this disturbs me.

First off, he is indirectly drawing a fake connection between Saddam and 9/11. A trick the Republicans have been using since the tragedy. And it's worked. Second of all, by listing a box cutter as a WMD he is basically saying that anyone, and anything armed with a toothpick could be a threat, great enough to go to war- therefore, not only disregarding that we DIDN'T find WMD, but justifying the Iraq war and any following wars using 9/11- which is low, and sick.

This is actually one of many times which i've witnessed republicans drawing said connection, and/or blaming the tragedy on Saddam.

by listing a box cutter as a WMD he is basically saying that anyone, and anything armed with a toothpick could be a threat, great enough to go to war

And this is why America is so overzealous, paranoid, and deceiving.

[img]http://www.geocities.com/o0o0ender0o0o/haxor.jpg[/img]

"And ye shall learn the truth, and the truth will make you free." (John 8:32)

</bush>

3 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

Once again, you seem to have taken things out of context.  What he was saying is that anyone with a will to harm America, will use anything in their means to succeed.  He was simply using the example to show that Saddam, who was attempting to create WMD's (even though he didn't have them yet) would get them, and use them on us.  He wasn't connecting 911 to Saddam, merely connecting the ideology.

4 Reply by Catbert

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

Saddam was a secular dictator, bin Laden was a religious fundamentalist.  There was no relationship ideologically.

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5 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

Saddam:  "Death to the infidels!"

Osama:  "Death to the infidels!"

Saddam:  "This is a holy war."

Osama:  "This is a holy war."

Osama, talking about 911:  "We are responsible."

Saddam, talking about 911 before he realized the extent of the damage:  "I am responsible."

No connection.....  Sure..... roll

6 Reply by Catbert

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

Saddam never claimed responsibility for 9/11, and a common hatred of America does not mean they are allies.  For instance, a lot of Democrats hate George W. Bush.  But so does Osama bin Laden and I take it that Saddam Hussein does.

This doesn't mean Democrats support bin Laden/Saddam any more than Saddam and Osama "worked together" so to speak.  I recall Dubya calling this a holy war (crusade) to, does that make him a jihadist?     

http://www.recordonline.com/archive/200 … /rdp16.htm

If you believe Saddam was involved in 9/11, you are an imbecile.  Furthermore, you might know something the 9/11 commission itself would like to have heard.

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7 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

What are you talking about?  Saddam claimed responsibility 2 hours after the first plain hit, then retracted it an hour later.

Oh, and Bush called it a crusade.  If I say I'm on a crusade to rid my house of dust, that doesn't mean it's a holy war.  That's just silly.

8 Reply by Catbert

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

A crusade is a religious war, that is its primary definition.  It would seem we have two sets of standrds, Brim.

I can find no article in which Saddam claimed responsibility for 9/11.  You think that sort of thing would make the news.

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9 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

It did.  It was all over the news the day after the attacks.

Also, crusade is comonly used in place of "war" or "fight."  They are synonyms.  So, he used flowery, politician-speak.  When have I ever set up a standard against that?  It's commonplace.

You're pulling crap out of your ass here, Cat.  (which is still a far cry better than pulling it out of your mouth like most liberals. wink )

10 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

Oh, another thing...

If you believe Saddam was involved in 9/11, you are an imbecile. Furthermore, you might know something the 9/11 commission itself would like to have heard.

I never said he was directly involved.  He claimed responsibility, then retracted his statements.  Oh, and the 911 Commission did report that Saddam's regime was funding terrorist organizations, including Al Qaeda.  Saddam himself allowed many terrorist groups to set up and train in Iraq.  It's in the report.  It's a good read.  I suggest picking up a copy.

11 Reply by brimstone1392

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

I'll repy to the majority of this later tonight when I have time.  I will site the parts of the report that back up what I say.  Until then...

The 9-11 commission doesn't mention Saddam claiming responsibility. I can find no news article. You claim he did, now prove it.

Never said it was in the report.  It was on the news.  I'll try and dig up the articles from the day after the attack for you, but you'll just have to wait till then.

12 Reply by Lerris

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

As far as I can tell Saddam never claimed responsibility but claimed that the attacks were fruition of a collective hatred for America... So he didn't say he did it but that people who felt the same way as he, did it.

13 Reply by Catbert

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Re: Deception. And Bullshit.

There is a distinct difference between taking the action, planning the action and approving of the action.  They cannot be morally equated, and 9/11 was not Saddam's sin.  It was our punishment.

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