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Re: American hatred

No its about knowing and learning about other country's.
Acknowledging their existance in the world, learning their culture etc.

It just seems like every American i meet is extremely narrow minded and oblivious to the rest of the world. I know you are not all like this..but like the saying goes..Majority Rules and that is how it seems.

I had some guy argue me once that the reason the troops are in Iraq are because they blew up the world trade centre.....while an educated person would know it was the Afghani's that did that....Nay...One band of extremists led by a ruthless leader (sound familiar)...but The whole country is under attack and every arab is a terrorist.

you are all making it to complex it is just that they us hate for everything and anything

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Re: American hatred

The swearing on a bible is only done in the movies.. You actually swear in on the state's law book.

I really dont see how we are stupid and uncreative let alone "sheep"... Every government has corruption in it.. The US Government compared to almost any other government would be considered saints. Try looking at Russia's Government.. or France's and Germany's.. Hell take a gander at China's government. You don't have to live here, you could easily go anywhere else... They don't call Mexico the land of Oppurtunity for nothing you know.. O wait.. they don't..

Well put Fireborn.

Hooka, you are just some moron who wants to be a rebel and can't see the difficulties of having a perfert government with zero problems.  Sure some parts of the American government are corrupt but we are much better off than others.  It's fools like you who display their ignorance for all to see that give Americans a bad name.  If we can't put some trust and confidence into our government then how can we be a successful country?  Just because we try to support our government doesn't mean we're sheep simply following the flock, but means we want to get involved so that we can help our government grow into something better with less corruption.  Of course nothing can survive without corruption when it has so little support from its people.

Omg I'm so bored.

still you are making it to complex

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Re: American hatred

... maybe your not the greatest country in the world ...

Just wondering, who IS the greatest country then?

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Re: American hatred

... maybe your not the greatest country in the world ...

Just wondering, who IS the greatest country then?

Why does there have to be a greatest? You do realise it's not a competition?

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Re: American hatred

Honestly greatest country in the world right now that i know of would be Singapore.

They have a great economy, very low unemployment, good housing and medical, the cleanest nation in the world, one of the safest nations in the world with almost no crime and no world enemies.

For a country that is smaller than the city of New York..they sure as hell do a lot.

I'm opening up a shop that sells 13" rulers just so Fireborn stops complaining.

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Re: American hatred

As a level 312 grand master American I have one last thing to say.  I'm jealous of all other countries subways for they are so much cleaner and shinier than ours.

*insert clever phrase here*

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Re: American hatred

Isnt Singapore known for Child Explotation? As well as Child Prostitution? I thought they were right up there with Thailand on that.

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

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Re: American hatred

Isnt Singapore known for Child Explotation? As well as Child Prostitution? I thought they were right up there with Thailand on that.

And thats a bad thing?  roll






And to the  my earlier post, everytime I watch a extreme competition (FMX, Motocross, BMX, Inlines) what ever, Americans always say "Oh I want to thank god blah blah blah". In fact, I only have 1 out of 25-30 American MSN contacts that are not religious.

Of course everyone thinks "And why does he hate that"? And my answer is, I DO hate that, I seriously think all religious stuff is blasphemy, and there is no afterlife or higherpower.

I should explain this a bit more but this is Falldowns forum, so no.

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Re: American hatred

Umm being a Nihilist isn't religious is it?

Modern cyberspace is a deadly festering swamp, teeming with dangerous programs such as''licensed Microsoft software'' that can take over your computer and render it useless.

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Re: American hatred

Umm being a Nihilist isn't religious is it?

Well, usually not but I guess we can make an exception for you (if you want to) cus your so sexy  :oops:

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Re: American hatred

Sorry no child exploitation in singapore  sad  and i was so looking forward to getting you a 12yo boy for your birthday Fireborn...guess i'll have to just pick one out of Faldon

I'm opening up a shop that sells 13" rulers just so Fireborn stops complaining.

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Re: American hatred

I would preferably a virgin male!

Who am I kidding.. once again you'll have no trouble finding one in Faldon.

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

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Re: American hatred

Who am I kidding.. once again you'll have no trouble finding one in Faldon.

ha ha ha ha

QFT

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas

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Re: American hatred

America IS hated.  This is because we are considered to be, even though no one will admit it, the bigger brother of ALOT of other nations.  We will always look out for our little brother(s), but we will remain true to who and what we are.

It's been a while.... but HEY PEOPLE!!!  How Y'all been? big_smile

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Re: American hatred

Hey Brim..

I like to think of us as the Younger Brother that grew up to be bigger and stronger than our older brothers.. So they begin to get Agitated when we help them.. Thats ok though.. We should go back to the days when our cute older Sister France gets beat like a $2 Hooker by our other older brother Germany.

Sibling Rivalry... That can explain all the wars in the world! People just don't think Mom and Dad put us in Charge... Stop crying and call the number that Mom and Dad left on the fridge in case of emergency if you don't think that they made us the babysitter.



incoherency ftw

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

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Re: American hatred

Here's how I view the global community/family:

We're the older brother.  Our Dad is Britain.  He got married to that manipulative bitch of a stepmother of ours (who, by the way, talks about everyone behind their backs!)  Then there's our crazy uncle germany.  He had a few BAD acid trips in his day and went a little nuts, but is okay as long as he takes his medication.  Then there's our little brother (well, half-brother) Canada.  He's a little crying bastard who still sucks on mommy's (France's) tit.  We argue and fight over every little thing, as brothers are known to do, but it all serves a purpose.  We really just want Canada to grow a pair, because as we have learned, the world is a tough place.  But, at the end of the day, we can still sit down and have a beer together.

That's the way I see it.  But don't get me started on our neighbor Mexico!  Lettin' their kids run all over our lawn like that!  wink

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Re: American hatred

What about our friends in the Middle East? What? Is it their skin color you're ashamed of (kidding)? Or just the really obvious stuff (so not kidding)?

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Re: American hatred

And in response to America's religion and swearing on the bible...aren't the famous words "In God we Trust"....says it all pretty much right there.

I just want to clear this up: we don't have a national religion. I'm an American and an atheist, so I'm probably a decent source to listen to regarding this silly little issue. Speaking of silly things, we've got a lot of silly little traditions in this country that successfully pander to God-fearing folk and traditionalists at large. Adding that motto to our currency and adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance are truly nothing more than meaningless words that make Christians believe this country is officially a Christian nation and foreigners, like yourself, buy that same line of thought. And I can understand it. If I watched an occasional presidential speech, or heard half the political rhetoric from our senators and congressmen, you'd have to think we were officially a religious country. But, alas, it's just that: rhetoric. For all that talk, and all the stupid mottos and traditions, the religious presence felt coming from any legal system is negligible. It's hard to ignore the talk, but it's mainly just that. Every country has its religious nuts, and the religious bases crooked politicians want to exploit. We're really no different; expect maybe we're a little more transparent in that sense, unfortunately.

Anyway, it's really no big deal. Just trust me on that one. You can make the case all day long, and I'll be right there to back you up, that politicians and a good portion of the uneducated and unintelligent populance try to mix religion and law far too much, but America, for all it's worth, is not a religious country anymore than any other country comprised of people of faith, which is essentially every single one. Most people are just more humble about it. We used to be too, believe it or not.

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Re: American hatred

Honestly greatest country in the world right now that i know of would be Singapore.

They have a great economy, very low unemployment, good housing and medical, the cleanest nation in the world, one of the safest nations in the world with almost no crime and no world enemies.

For a country that is smaller than the city of New York..they sure as hell do a lot.

Singapore is a very well-run country and I like it loads. What it has achieved the past 50 years is truly remarkable, its one of the rare examples of (for all practical purposes) dictatorship turned good, no corrupt self-enriching incompetent idiots in charge but an autocratic technocratic administration that has proven itself over the years and has the full confidence of its people as a result. This in turn means it can expect great discipline from its population and rule effectively. One example would be how one can sleep in Singapore without mosquito nets since all sweet water sources where mosquitos could normally reproduce are strictly registered and controlled, another example would be the way it reacted to the outbreak of SARS, it was one of the later countries who got hit by it and one of the first to get rid of it again.

My problem with Singapore though, is the limits that same society does place on the individual. One's freedoms and opportunities are a lot more limited than they are elsewhere. This in part of how the government and country works, you can't *just* become the leader of that country for one thing, another part of it is of course the size of the country. The land is so scarce it takes a millionaire to live in what we would call a regular, nearly everyone is assigned by the government to appartments in big complexes/flats. (Not quite the danchi prevalent in latter 20th century Japan, but still something to that effect.) Also stuff like the death penalty is just plain uncivilised in my book, but the US doesn't score much better on that issue.

Doesn't take away that I think Singapore is quite an okay country to live in, daily life there is very agreeable, it is culturally diverse and interesting and although the people are expected to work hard, they do get a high standard of living in return. Extremely high if viewed in the context of its neighbours.

"We must face the fact that the preservation of individual freedom is incompatible with a full satisfaction of our views of distributive justice."

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Re: American hatred

America is hated because its the worlds bigger brother and other countries are jealous? This is only partially true imho. I've said this before, but pre 9-11 (or perhaps I should say pre-Bush?) America was quite well-liked here in Western Europe at least. I can only safely argue from my Western European perspective, so that is what I'll do.

People did generally think America was a bit backward with regards to social justice, stuff like the US prison system, capital punishment and comparatively huge differences between the poor and the rich (obviously any country is gonna tend to argue from its own viewpoint and consider itself the norm and thus policy-wise the most reasonable middle ground) but aside from such differences people here always considered the Americans as their friends and as sharing the same fate.

The thing about ignorance was always the stereotype of Americans over here, but people didnt hate them for it so long as the ignorance didnt affect the rest of the world in any negative manner. It should be noted that relative ignorance of the rest of the world is something common to all large countries, Britain and Japan have similar issues. Even France and Germany do, albeit to a lesser degree.

Since the 21st century however there have been some differences that got pushed into the spotlight and have somewhat alienated us from eachother. 

First there is the election of George Bush, most of Europe typified Bush as an unintelligent man dead-set on further increasing social injustice, they almost unanimously agreed that Gore was a far better candidate. The victory of Bush (and the manner in which he achieved it) did stir some disbelief with European media following the elections, but so far it was nothing too bad.

Then there is 9-11, a terrible black day in history and all of Europe was deeply shocked and strongly sympathised with the American people. Most of the world did in fact, and the decision to invade Afghanistan in the U.N. was (iirc) unanimous, which is a very unique thing indeed, all the nations of the world agreed something had to be done about the perpetrators of the attacks on the twin towers and the pentagon.

Around that time the American administration started rubbing countries the wrong way though. One thing that agitated people was the use of terms such as "the axis of evil", a grand and rather judgemental self-righteous term lacking any subtlety and nuance not seen since the Cold War when Reagan carelessly labeled the Soviet Union as an "evil empire" only later in his term to realize that maybe the Russians weren't necessarily 'evil' at all in the prelude to the fall of the Berlin wall.

Another example of the perceived lack of reasonable nuance of the United States is when Bush stated "You are either with us or against us". This black-and-white announcement went around the world as a threat towards all who would not unconditionally follow the United States and noone considers itself anyone's lapdog who will unconditionally follow commands without applying thought first and forming its own opinion. In terms of the brother analogy coined earlier this thread, the strong big brother said: "You better do what I tell you to or else." It is no surprise that this harvests more animosity than it does servitude.

There are other things too, like how the US considers itself above the law. Prisoners of War were shipped off to Guantanamo Bay and declared not to fall under the Geneva Convention (which was maintained until July 2006). The U.S. which had in the past been the main proponent of an International Court of Justice started considering its citizens immune from the court and iirc even made invasion/infiltration plans (into the Netherlands) to cover the eventuality of an American being tried for crimes against humanity or whatnot. All human beings are equal, but some are more equal than others, is what seems to be the message.

A new phase of disillusion was Iraq. Suddenly the US aimed its arrows at Saddam Hussein. We've seen weapon inspectors that were getting more and more of a free hand in doing their jobs in Iraq, helped largely by US pressure and threats. I myself was much in favour of keeping the threat of invasion real to force Saddam into cooperating. Then much to the disbelief of many Europeans including myself the weapon inspectors had to leave, not because the Iraqis removed them from the country or were hindered from doing their work, but because the US was preparing to attack Iraq in spite of the weapon inspectors finding no clues whatsoever and receiving increasing liberty in searching for aforementioned clues. I'm asking you to look at these observations as described all by themselves and consider that it might seem like the weapon inspectors were merely a charade and that the US had long decided already it was going to attack Iraq regardless of what the inspectors might find.

Most of Europe was willing to go along in this war if it were a legal and supported law under the rulings of the United Nations. The United States however, failed to convince the United States including France and Germany of the presence of Weapons of Mass Destruction and went along with the war by itself (with Great Britain). This caused more than a few raised eyebrows but what was worse was the childish manner in which the US for a short while reacted to France and Germany. There were occasional mentions in the news of the US renaming French fries to freedom fries and owners of German-made cars finding their headlights smashed and silly stuff of the sort. Whilst it doesnt very directly damage France or Germany, it does very much suggest that the United States does no appreciate and respect that some countries might differ from them in opinion. The fact that Weapons of Mass Destruction were not found and that France and germany were right not to have been persuaded by the vague photos Colin Powell showed in the U.N. is actually largely besides the point.

I could go on much longer probably with things such as Europeans not understanding Bush being re-elected on the background of the war in Iraq and the national debt development or the US standing up the world by not signing the Kyoto protocol or the US waging war in an attempt to combat terrorism but doing absolutely nothing with respect to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which is broadly seen as an important cause of anti-American terrorist sentiment in Islamic nations. (That is one of the things in foreign relations where United States intervention is really needed, since it'll be hard for anyone else to mediate in this conflict.) But, I'm getting bored so I won't go into that. I'll mention one other thing however that Western Europeans find hard to sympathize with, religion. Europe has secularized in a high tempo in the past decades, this was never much of an issue in its foreign relations, but since 9-11 religion has taken to the foreground again and a political leader invoking God is something that'd be unheard of hear, though it spawns more arched eyebrows than disbelief. I'll add to this btw, that in my perception anti-Americanism is already much in decline over here, people mostly just don't want anything to do with its foreign policy and wars.

Well, it remains to be seen whether anyone is going to read this, but if someone does, I hope they'll agree that the negative attitude to the US the past 6 years is at least in part due to actual actions taken and things said by the US. Having said that I submit that as the Dutch saying goes "tall trees catch more wind", being the major superpower in the world it is only natural that it'll be the target of a large share of criticism and anger, both just and unjust.

"We must face the fact that the preservation of individual freedom is incompatible with a full satisfaction of our views of distributive justice."

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Re: American hatred

Well, it remains to be seen whether anyone is going to read this, but if someone does, I hope they'll agree...

I actually *did* read this, and I agree with you one-hundred percent. All of the flak that America catches is it's own damn fault. And I say this being an American.

Zerodyme is a ghost. You don't know he's there until he's cut you. As your hands fall off and your torso splits, the last thing you'll think is, "Oh, fuck! Zerodyme was here!"

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Re: American hatred

Very well put Crov

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas

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Re: American hatred

personally, knowing the military and economic might of the American nation in its current state, and knowing the capacity it can reach, I really do not think that Europe has any business telling us where to stick our noses, especially since they are all a bunch of sissies, and gave away Poland, for gods sake.

It is high time I put something intelligent here.

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Re: American hatred

personally, knowing the military and economic might of the American nation in its current state, and knowing the capacity it can reach, I really do not think that Europe has any business telling us where to stick our noses, especially since they are all a bunch of sissies, and gave away Poland, for gods sake.

Are you really saying Euprope should watch its collective mouth because America has a lot of military force and - I'm assuming then - kick their collective ass? You're really threatening Europe because we're powerful and they're a bunch of "sissies"? Is that what's going on or did I totally misread that?

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Re: American hatred

Just to add a couple comments here:

One of the biggest problems is that the world sees us as a bully because we're bigger and stronger than they are and we use our strength when we need to.  This is to be expected and I really don't blame them for it.  But one thing to remember is that a bully doesn't stick around to defend the people he beats up.  Just a thought. big_smile

And second... big_smile HEY MOLD!:

As for your earlier question about the middle east, I consider them part of the global community, but not the immediate family.  Actually, in terms of countries again and not individual people, most of them are bullies.  They talk a big game and go after people who they don't think will fight back.  Hey, they keep picking on the little jewish girl with the big nose (Israel).  That's just not right.  Hey, girls with big noses give great... :shock:

I'm gonna leave that there.

And as for our involvement with them, well, it's up to the strong to protect the weak.  I think we've all forgotten that one.