1

Topic: Bots

Thoughts on bots? It seems I can detect them pretty reliably.

My current thought is "disables Holy Aura" -- that would effectively prioritize spawns for people actively playing. Similarly, PKing bots would not mark you as criminal/murderer so Town Guards would not attack you.

I intend to also track how many Faldon days the bot is active, how many levels gained are during its activity, etc.

Bots engaging in PvP of active players, that I intend to come down quite hard on. Feedback is appreciated.

2

Re: Bots

Afk lvling is whatever in my opinion


bots in pvp should be insta wipe/lvl 1 etc , just prove person used it before hammering but remove it

my solution would be , dont disable holy aura but make Mindblast alot more reliable and make it disable holy aura for 10+ sec so people can fuck with those who afk lvl ,

3

Re: Bots

James,

Can you clarify what you are detecting? For instance, does "Macroing while NOT AFK" considered a bot? Is a macro detected as a bot? I use macros to help with lumberjacking, as an example.

Clarification would help the AFK vs Not AFK

Disabling Holy Aura will 100% be a good idea - there are some of us that enjoy going around and killing the bots leveling and the holy aura is a pain... as well as the criminal/murderer flag.

^ Self regulation is a great idea and this lets us do it smile

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Re: Bots

Salazzar(HM) wrote:

Afk lvling is whatever in my opinion


bots in pvp should be insta wipe/lvl 1 etc , just prove person used it before hammering but remove it

my solution would be , dont disable holy aura but make Mindblast alot more reliable and make it disable holy aura for 10+ sec so people can fuck with those who afk lvl ,

You've literally used bots to PVP players that don't even macro while at the keyboard (Mouse_) .. please insta wipe your characters.

Thanks,
Angeldust

5

Re: Bots

Angeldust wrote:
Salazzar(HM) wrote:

Afk lvling is whatever in my opinion


bots in pvp should be insta wipe/lvl 1 etc , just prove person used it before hammering but remove it

my solution would be , dont disable holy aura but make Mindblast alot more reliable and make it disable holy aura for 10+ sec so people can fuck with those who afk lvl ,

You've literally used bots to PVP players that don't even macro while at the keyboard (Mouse_) .. please insta wipe your characters.

Thanks,
Angeldust

there is chat logs of you at lvl 800 threatning mouse & Tr!pp lvl 300? that because they killd you in pvp and you lost , you threatend to use pvp programs vs them to kill them? after that you are kos to me , now you crying that i use something? funny ,

whenever you want however u want we can pvp smile you will lose  wink

Last edited by Salazzar(HM) (Today 1:59 PM)

6

Re: Bots

Trouble with autodetection is there's no way to tell AFK vs. non-AFK. Right now I detect packet injection, network socket hooks, and a few programs.

7

Re: Bots

It would be nice if it was lenient on simple right click macros. It might be a tightrope punishing the worst use of these tools vs. relatively harmless use.

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Re: Bots

There is not a single character above level 700 which is not done AFK, simple as that. Banning programs or macroes to level is just pointless, all you do is lose your playerbase. And what is even fair at this point? What about the earlier levelers, who did it all afk to say 1500 - 2000? Do they get wiped?

Focus on fixing bugs and create new content, rework leveling, add new mobs with higher exp or something atleast if you are going to stop AFK leveling now after 20 years.

And to end I agree with Salazzar, moderate PVP bots sure.

9

Re: Bots

James,

I'm glad to see you're reaching out to the community for opinions on this matter, it's one I've considered at length from both sides of the argument. I've been around since the early 2000's and have seen the evolution of the community, game and botting. Botting has always been a part of Faldon, like technology, it has improved with time. It's been amplified by our experience and things like % items being added/fixed.

When considering this issue I think it's important to focus on the rationale and not the immediate pros and cons, but they are worth noting. Today's server is an amalgamation of decades of abuse, misuse, exploitation and neglect. Yet, we still try to play it. New and (mostly) returning players alike are faced with a mountain of progress and exploitation to compete with, yet we rise to the occasion. Progress is relative in MMO's, some could say the level 2k on the leaderboard is an abomination, I see it as a challenge. Some could see the items people have amassed and see them as ruining the game, I see at as the game we are playing. It's not just levels though, its all sorts of progression from skills, to items, to gold.

It seems us who chose to see the current game state as the parameters in which we're forced to compete are demonized. Historically speaking, the damage is done. We're just better at botting than we used to be.

The main issue with stopping/slowing/preventing botting it's never really foolproof, especially programmatically. There's numerous methods that are being used in other games, such as OCR(onscreen recognition) and network level packet injecting that would not be detectible. These methods are being used on Blizzards games, and they've put years and 10's of millions into stopping it to no avail.

The main argument for stopping botting is to give manual players a fair chance, that chance is blown. It's over.

All that said, I think there is a goldilocks solution here happily.

The current server with all its faults is our faldon. I've played it off and on since I was a teenager, we have worked for decades to get where we are. To lose that would be a real shame, even with all its faults. It doesn't provide a fair experience and never will for those who wish to play it manually. The current server should remain, largely in the same regulation it has in the past which is next to none.

There is no fair way to undo the damage done over the decades though, and you've said it yourself, it wouldn't take much effort or ongoing server resources to run a second server.

There should be a second server, one heavily moderated. No botting of any kind, no AFK progression, no macroing, etc. Regular balancing would be required. This would be the only way give players who wish to play manually a fair shot.

In closing, I think any tinkering with game play at this point on the current server gives too much advantage to those who have historically benefited from the ability to abuse the game and punishes those who wish to compete with that damage today. Further, it doesn't actually help those who wish to have a manual experience as those who wish to abuse the system will find new an creative ways to do so. A second server with heavy moderation is likely the lowest effort to solve this problem anyhow. There are plenty of players who would volunteer to moderate, myself included.

I am very knowledgeable on the entirety and history of botting in Faldon if you'd like to discuss this one on one, I could give you an idea of where we're at today and what was done in the past.

If you made it to the end, thanks for reading.

Out of retirement... for now.

10

Re: Bots

James wrote:

Thoughts on bots? It seems I can detect them pretty reliably.

My current thought is "disables Holy Aura" -- that would effectively prioritize spawns for people actively playing. Similarly, PKing bots would not mark you as criminal/murderer so Town Guards would not attack you.

I intend to also track how many Faldon days the bot is active, how many levels gained are during its activity, etc.

Bots engaging in PvP of active players, that I intend to come down quite hard on. Feedback is appreciated.

I'm not gonna lie and will be 100% sincere on this. Game cheating and that whole world always interested me since i was a kid, not cheating itself, but learning how cheats work and building them myself. I firstly had contact with Maldon when i was 14, so when I started studying Computer Engineering at 17 I always looked to replicate Maldon and make my own version (i love Faldon and i love that programming area, so it was 2 passions at once). I struggled to get close to what Maldon was, but i had got to make some really cool programs, i showed them to ppl (biggest mistake i made) then someone else started his own too. Before that everyone would use only WPE or AHK scripts for skills and leveling. All this problem (including ppl asking for anti cheat, network protocol upgrade and such) started when the 2nd person who made his own program added pvp cheating/botting to his program then all the war and mess began. As I said I would not lie and be 100% sincere, if afk leveling and such be blocked, this game may die unfortunately. That's really sad, because we all say we love this game, but how can we love it and quit if afking be blocked? Don't we love the game? Well, those are my thoughts from playing this game for so long pratically non stop. We're a few people, it shouldn't be hard to agree (common sense) on not using pvp bots, but it's a constant fight for ego... well we're humans, everyone individually different and thats it...

11

Re: Bots

I'm glad you're cracking down on bots Zer. PvP bots are extremely lame, that goes without question. Cracking down on this is a big step forward. Keeping track of who bots and who doesn't and weighing the consequences is reassuring to me too that you aim to balance this game as you envision it.

I think your decisions concerning PVP bots is %100 necessary, it should be made apart of a sort of Terms of Service of Faldon that if violated results in harsh consequences.

Other than that, concerning other forms of botting such as afk leveling:

I think the afk leveling thing is pretty lame too, I only got so many hours in the day to play the game, but to an afk leveler their time is limitless so long as they go unpunished. I know my PVP experience is going to suck because of it, closing the level gap as a fair player seems like an impossible task. Couple this with the times a player will be leveling at a spawn at their keyboard only to get griefed or pk'd by these OP botters who didn't actually play the game, or being pursued by one throughout the map to the point one must simply f9 and relog is also not very fun but rather very aggravating - the outcome of letting bot levelers run rampant on your game doesn't reward fair players and retains the cheaters and exploiters who feel justified doing what they do simply because they make up the majority of the population(or so it may seem from all the double/triple/quadruple boxing botting), or simply because they think they make the game not feel so much like a ghost town, which it probably wouldn't be in the first place if there was more enforcement to begin with.

EDIT: TLDR Bot leveling shouldn't be a thing unless the person is at the keyboard and are active enough to respond to every single box they have open*

Last edited by *~-.-~* (Today 4:26 PM)

Matt 25:31-46

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Re: Bots

*~-.-~* wrote:

I think the afk leveling thing is pretty lame too, I only got so many hours in the day to play the game, but to an afk leveler their time is limitless so long as they go unpunished. I know my PVP experience is going to suck because of it, closing the level gap as a fair player seems like an impossible task.

I do agree with your stance on PVP botting.

The issue with this statement is, you will never, and I mean ever, close the level gap.. That horse is out of the barn. And it was out of the barn long before this generation of botters came around. Disallowing it at this point does nothing to improve your situation. The only real solution is a 2nd server. Let the botters have their version of Faldon, the one we've all played for 25 years.  If you wish to play manually and compete with only like players, play on the 2nd server.

Out of retirement... for now.

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Re: Bots

Mechanic wrote:
*~-.-~* wrote:

I think the afk leveling thing is pretty lame too, I only got so many hours in the day to play the game, but to an afk leveler their time is limitless so long as they go unpunished. I know my PVP experience is going to suck because of it, closing the level gap as a fair player seems like an impossible task.

I do agree with your stance on PVP botting.

The issue with this statement is, you will never, and I mean ever, close the level gap.. That horse is out of the barn. And it was out of the barn long before this generation of botters came around. Disallowing it at this point does nothing to improve your situation. The only real solution is a 2nd server. Let the botters have their version of Faldon, the one we've all played for 25 years.  If you wish to play manually and compete with only like players, play on the 2nd server.

Until there's a second server, your opinion about my opinion is irrelevant. The experience rewards cheaters and not fair players.

Matt 25:31-46

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Re: Bots

*~-.-~* wrote:

Until there's a second server, your opinion about my opinion is irrelevant. The experience rewards cheaters and not fair players.

Care to explain how you would close the level gap playing a few hours a day? I think my point is extremely relevant.

Out of retirement... for now.