26 Reply by *~-.-~*

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Re: Bots

iMouse wrote:
Mechanic wrote:
*~-.-~* wrote:

Until there's a second server, your opinion about my opinion is irrelevant. The experience rewards cheaters and not fair players.

Care to explain how you would close the level gap playing a few hours a day? I think my point is extremely relevant.

It's not just about closing the level gap or reversing all the previous damage done through cheating. I don't even care about the leader boards. Although a new server with some tweaks would be nice (apparently ppl have been asking for it for years), addressing the bots will improve the game play experience for legitimate players.

Also I would like to suggest removing "pets fetch" command to make it harder to AFK camp for items.

I can get behind this, great idea to hinder afk farming. Everything from AFK farming which gives them their surplus of items they can sell for USD, to their AFK leveling which gives them pvp superiority to control spawns, who pits, who levels at what spawn, etc. needs to go. They don't want to let go of any of it because they're having too good of a time exploiting and using this game to their advantage. And they have the audacity to deny that what they're doing completely destroyed any potential this game was meant to have. Not only this, some of them have the nerve to actually boast that all this botting actually helped rofl. Oh and if Zer decides to put his foot down they'll threaten to leave. What an utter clown show.

The way I see it Zer has two choices. He can cater to them and let them have their way with his game with their afk farms and leveling, and never see this game grow beyond that particular population and culture, or he can uproot all the weeds, clean the soil and plant some new seed (metaphorically speaking). Sure nothing grows to maturity and produces fruit over night but that'll be for him to decide. Whether or not this game is as profitable to him now or if he wants to confidently take the chance to see if he can push it even further and make it even better.

Once this game looks good enough, and has a solid introduction for new players, he can grow this game from the ground up all over again, and all these self centered assholes want to do is doubt that this could happen by saying this is all Faldon really has to offer, it is as good as it can get right now thanks to botting because that's how it's always been. No that's just them articulating their own self absorbed justifications for keeping all of their ill gained exploits.

Last edited by *~-.-~* (Yesterday 7:17 PM)

Matt 25:31-46

27 Reply by Master Wu

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Re: Bots

bullethead123 wrote:

As for GM Wu's idea of selectively banning players, I see a much bigger issue here. The current GMs, some of whom have a history of abuse and misusing their powers, are not the right people to be making these decisions. Allowing them to selectively ban or jail players opens up a massive grey area for abuse, favoritism, and inconsistency. Given the past, it’s not hard to see how this could lead to further damage to the community.

In my opinion, it’s time to reconsider who is leading and shaping the future of Faldon. The people who genuinely care about the game, the ones who are actively creating tools to enhance the experience and keep the server running smoothly, should have more control and say in these matters. The GMs who abused their power in the past shouldn’t still be in these positions of authority, especially when their input seems more harmful than helpful.

What are you on about?

Seriously. Where did I say anything about banning players? lol

My "idea" is that we should make game-play compelling, and more interactive. So, you know, people might want to be present for it. I have no interest, and never have patrolled Faldon banning players for botting.

I also think people creating and selling the tools that are the topic of the discussion should have the least amount of input.

https://wujournal.weebly.com/

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28 Reply by bullethead123

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Re: Bots

*~-.-~* wrote:

y have the audacity to deny that what they're doing completely destroyed any potential this game was meant to have. Not only this, some of them have the nerve to actually boast that all this botting actually helped rofl. Oh and if Zer decides to put his foot down they'll threaten to leave. What an utter clown show.

While I understand your point, it's important to remember that AFK-ing isn’t a new phenomenon. Players have been doing it since the early days of the game, despite bans, jails, and wipes. Even with these measures, people kept returning to AFK, which speaks to a fundamental truth: there’s real demand for this feature.

The key difference now is that AFK-ing has been openly allowed or tolerated, whereas in the past it was done more discreetly. This shift has brought the debate into the open, but it’s important to note that it’s primarily a small group pushing for a ban, while the majority of players seem to enjoy the game as it is.

While I clearly have my opinions, the numbers don’t lie. After every client update, Zer himself has seen that only a handful of players log back in right away, and even then, half of those are just AFKers resetting their bots.

29 Reply by Phreak

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Re: Bots

bullethead123 wrote:

I can make automation tools without client mods or packet manipulation that would fool many people to think otherwise. Giving the current gms the power and freedom to selectively ban users based on their preference of 'too smart' is a bad idea IMO.

You're missing the point or trying to argue around it.

Of course you can make automation tools that don't use client mods or packet manipulation. But they will be inherently more fair because they're not making use of information or control beyond what's intended for the player with the standard client.

I've made many such tools for many games. There's a world of difference between the two cases. When you're limited to reading the screen and simulating player inputs there will always be additional latency and a more equivalent performance to an actual player.

You prove that point by using the methods you do. You use them because they're superior to the information and controls available to a player through the intended client experience.

Accessing information that isn't available through the standard client, or communicating with the server outside of the standard client, is a completely reasonable place to draw the line on what's automation and what's cheating.

Nothing in my post suggests mods "selectively ban users based on too smart". My post suggests a clear line which is both detectable and easy to understand.

30 Reply by bullethead123

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Re: Bots

Phreak wrote:
bullethead123 wrote:

I can make automation tools without client mods or packet manipulation that would fool many people to think otherwise. Giving the current gms the power and freedom to selectively ban users based on their preference of 'too smart' is a bad idea IMO.

You're missing the point or trying to argue around it.

Of course you can make automation tools that don't use client mods or packet manipulation. But they will be inherently more fair because they're not making use of information or control beyond what's intended for the player with the standard client.

I've made many such tools for many games. There's a world of difference between the two cases. When you're limited to reading the screen and simulating player inputs there will always be additional latency and a more equivalent performance to an actual player.

You prove that point by using the methods you do. You use them because they're superior to the information and controls available to a player through the intended client experience.

Accessing information that isn't available through the standard client, or communicating with the server outside of the standard client, is a completely reasonable place to draw the line on what's automation and what's cheating.

Nothing in my post suggests mods "selectively ban users based on too smart". My post suggests a clear line which is both detectable and easy to understand.

It’s actually quite ironic, as you've unintentionally proven my point. I mentioned that I can create a bot so sophisticated that a third party might assume it's using packet injection due to its capabilities. In fact, I already have—my first bot, which I streamed, was entirely third-party, using no packet or client manipulation. The real issue here is the inconsistency in what’s deemed acceptable. You’ve essentially said, “If it’s less advanced, then it’s fine,” but the reality is that this subjective line of what’s considered “too smart” is exactly why giving GMs the power to make selective bans is a bad idea.

The concern isn’t whether automation can be made without packet manipulation—it’s that drawing a line based on perceived sophistication leads to inconsistencies and leaves players vulnerable to arbitrary decisions.

Last edited by bullethead123 (Yesterday 9:11 PM)

31 Reply by Phreak

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Re: Bots

bullethead123 wrote:
Phreak wrote:
bullethead123 wrote:

I can make automation tools without client mods or packet manipulation that would fool many people to think otherwise. Giving the current gms the power and freedom to selectively ban users based on their preference of 'too smart' is a bad idea IMO.

You're missing the point or trying to argue around it.

Of course you can make automation tools that don't use client mods or packet manipulation. But they will be inherently more fair because they're not making use of information or control beyond what's intended for the player with the standard client.

I've made many such tools for many games. There's a world of difference between the two cases. When you're limited to reading the screen and simulating player inputs there will always be additional latency and a more equivalent performance to an actual player.

You prove that point by using the methods you do. You use them because they're superior to the information and controls available to a player through the intended client experience.

Accessing information that isn't available through the standard client, or communicating with the server outside of the standard client, is a completely reasonable place to draw the line on what's automation and what's cheating.

Nothing in my post suggests mods "selectively ban users based on too smart". My post suggests a clear line which is both detectable and easy to understand.

It’s actually quite ironic, as you've unintentionally proven my point. I mentioned that I can create a bot so sophisticated that a third party might assume it's using packet injection due to its capabilities. In fact, I already have—my first bot, which I streamed, was entirely third-party, using no packet or client manipulation. The real issue here is the inconsistency in what’s deemed acceptable. You’ve essentially said, “If it’s less advanced, then it’s fine,” but the reality is that this subjective line of what’s considered “too smart” is exactly why giving GMs the power to make selective bans is a bad idea.

The concern isn’t whether automation can be made without packet manipulation—it’s that drawing a line based on perceived sophistication leads to inconsistencies and leaves players vulnerable to arbitrary decisions.

You're deliberately conflating a clear line (control and information available to the player through the standard client), with a red-herring of "arbitrary perception of sophistication".

You're not honestly engaging with my suggestion. You're instead obfuscating and attempting to strawman a clearly defined objective position into something subjective. It's not a good look when combined with the implicit appearance of bias added by your position as the maker of tool which uses methods I'm suggesting should be considered cheating.

If a player hides behind something, another player (or a simple automation tool which uses the information available on the screen) can't see it. Your tool can.

That's not fair play. That's not a perception of sophistication. That's an objective real-time advantage for a tool vs a player.

It's a clear line and it also happens to be a line that would be somewhat more enforceable than other lines by detection.

32 Reply by Supla

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Re: Bots

bullethead123 wrote:

Hi James,

It's always good to hear from someone who truly cares about the game's future. I haven’t had the chance to read through all the replies, but I’ve noticed that those who are upset often voice their concerns the loudest. So, I’ll just share my perspective and leave it at that.

The bot I’ve created, which many players are using, was originally designed with a primary focus on enhancing the PVE experience. While it includes an option for PVP, this is just one feature among many. However, it seems to have garnered more attention than it deserves.

Personally, if AFK-botting were no longer allowed, I’d have little interest in continuing to play. As mentioned previously, if my presence or contribution isn't wanted, all you have to do is ask, and I will gracefully step away.

From my experience, the majority of players are currently AFK leveling. So, the real decision here is whether to embrace and cater to the majority of players or focus on the vocal minority.

Regarding PVP botting, I honestly don’t see it as a significant issue. The players using bots aren’t going around terrorizing others; if anything, it’s the smaller group of players who feel that their dominance is being challenged who are the most vocal about it. Ironically, it’s the few trying to impose their will on the many who feel the impact, but perhaps you might have a different view on fairness.

If you believe that PVP botting is creating an imbalance, I’d be more than happy to disable this feature. We could even introduce warnings for players that using bots for PVP will lead to consequences such as bans or jail time, ensuring fairness for everyone. If, however, you feel that the bot as a whole is detrimental to the game, I’ll remove it, though I think the game would suffer for it. My reason for saying this isn’t a threat; it’s just the reality that many players, myself included, are here for nostalgic reasons. We’re trying to achieve goals we couldn’t reach when we had more time as kids, but now life is different. Most of us simply don’t have the time to invest as we once did, especially in a game that requires slow progression.

I absolutely love Faldon in its current state. The ability to AFK level, the in-game drama, and the occasional PVP wars—these elements bring a modern twist to the game while maintaining the essence of what made it great in the past. The progression system in this game is naturally slow, and allowing AFK-botting has breathed new life into it. People can enjoy the experience without feeling like they’re falling behind because of real-world obligations.

As for GM Wu's idea of selectively banning players, I see a much bigger issue here. The current GMs, some of whom have a history of abuse and misusing their powers, are not the right people to be making these decisions. Allowing them to selectively ban or jail players opens up a massive grey area for abuse, favoritism, and inconsistency. Given the past, it’s not hard to see how this could lead to further damage to the community.

In my opinion, it’s time to reconsider who is leading and shaping the future of Faldon. The people who genuinely care about the game, the ones who are actively creating tools to enhance the experience and keep the server running smoothly, should have more control and say in these matters. The GMs who abused their power in the past shouldn’t still be in these positions of authority, especially when their input seems more harmful than helpful.

I also believe the game would benefit from collaborating with those of us who are actively developing these tools. Instead of seeing bots as a threat, why not view them as a way to enhance the experience for the majority of players? In fact, integrating bots in a way that improves overall server performance, while setting clear boundaries (such as prohibiting bots for certain types of activities like PVP), would provide structure. A poll might even reveal that the majority of players enjoy the current state of the game, thanks in part to these AFK tools.

Finally, I'd like to suggest that Faldon has evolved. The rules of the past were designed for a different era, but now the game has moved into a new phase where AFK leveling and botting have become integral to the player experience. It’s worth considering that many modern games, particularly those designed to be AFK-friendly (like idle or clicker games), thrive on similar mechanics. These games recognize that players' time is valuable, and offering an AFK component helps maintain engagement. By embracing this shift, Faldon can cater to a larger group of players who want to enjoy the game but may not have endless hours to invest.

In conclusion, allowing AFK-botting has made Faldon more accessible, enjoyable, and, frankly, sustainable. While it may not be for everyone, it's worth acknowledging that it’s a driving factor behind the game’s current vibrancy. Personally, I think it’s something worth preserving, but I respect your decision either way.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I didnt want to start a discussion with you again, but you just cant stop lying.

You cant be serious. Firstly, you were the first person trying to get James to ban afking, upgrading server to SSL and such, because you couldnt make bots like others, you even offered him help on bchat in game. Then you got to make your bot, so you started selling it and and never talked about anti cheating again.

Now you say "if you want me remove the pvp bot you just have to say", you were the only person who had a pvp bot for a whole month and sold it along with your program, I asked you to remove that, everyone did, you even said once that you were gonna remove it, but you never did. There was a reason no one used pvp bots over the last 10-20 years, it wasnt knowledge issue, it's common sense. You want to run your afk stuff on pve? Fine, but dont get that shit onto pvp, everyone always known that. How can you say you love occasional pvp wars when all you did on a war was programming ur bot to auto path to spawn and attack everyone who hit you, you never fought a war, you have to understand that, you have no clue how a war on Faldon is

Finally, wtf you talking about GMs who abused their power are still in the current team? You should say names instead of only spread lies.

Well, i didnt want to say that, but you and your ego war ruined and is ruining the game. Game was much better without you, and a lot of ppl will agree with that. Idk if this will make things less worse to you, but it's not only you, i could say a few more names besides you, ppl being toxic 24/7 on chat, ppl saying things that no one should read, if a new player, mainly kids, was trying the game, they would never come back, and several more problems.

33 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

I just see a whole lot of entitled people here. This game owes you fuck all. What is needed however, is that players, for once, stop their shit and really think about what is good FOR the game instead of what is good for themselves. Most complaining Ive seen (e.g. lag spikes a month ago) are always about "my bot cant work properly because the game is bugged".

Its seriously has been a while since Ive seen people actively try and make things better for others or new players (yeah I know youre here)

Imho, GMs should stop giving a damn about current players and try to move on from this arrogant and egoistic playerbase.

Evil Devil - Prometherion

34 Reply by Mechanic

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Re: Bots

Mister Rob wrote:

Its seriously has been a while since Ive seen people actively try and make things better for others or new players (yeah I know youre here)

Idk, Tr!pp/Bartle did the youtube/insta stuff. I tried to revamp the wiki, Trav did some work on the guides, you did some fun stuff with the chat bot thing. There's some good in there.

Out of retirement... for now.

35 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

Mechanic wrote:
Mister Rob wrote:

Its seriously has been a while since Ive seen people actively try and make things better for others or new players (yeah I know youre here)

Idk, Tr!pp/Bartle did the youtube/insta stuff. I tried to revamp the wiki, Trav did some work on the guides, you did some fun stuff with the chat bot thing. There's some good in there.

Yeah, like I said I know they are around. Im just fed up with people thinking that botting should be allowed because thats the way they "play" the game and complain because of it.

Evil Devil - Prometherion

36 Reply by James

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Re: Bots

Supla wrote:

There was a reason no one used pvp bots over the last 10-20 years, it wasnt knowledge issue, it's common sense.

Spot on. PvP bots are what got my attention. All they do is make the game worse for other people. I cannot see an upside.

I would ask for ideas to detect this behavior, though. How do you detect self-defense vs. griefing?

Supla wrote:

ppl being toxic 24/7 on chat, ppl saying things that no one should read, if a new player, mainly kids, was trying the game, they would never come back, and several more problems.

I'm a father and when I see chat this is *always* on my mind. This week's update will contain a new optional chat filtering mode in Parental Controls for this reason. I've had to go through many different parts of the server code to implement it, because it's not just a minor filter...

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37 Reply by Salazzar(HM)

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Re: Bots

James wrote:
Supla wrote:

There was a reason no one used pvp bots over the last 10-20 years, it wasnt knowledge issue, it's common sense.

Spot on. PvP bots are what got my attention. All they do is make the game worse for other people. I cannot see an upside.

I would ask for ideas to detect this behavior, though. How do you detect self-defense vs. griefing?

Supla wrote:

ppl being toxic 24/7 on chat, ppl saying things that no one should read, if a new player, mainly kids, was trying the game, they would never come back, and several more problems.

I'm a father and when I see chat this is *always* on my mind. This week's update will contain a new optional chat filtering mode in Parental Controls for this reason. I've had to go through many different parts of the server code to implement it, because it's not just a minor filter...

well i asked gms for punishment vs pvp programs i got the answere "dont care tell zer not my problem" type shit ,

when it comes to ingame filters ppl will find a way around it , how about we do what other games do? somone types racist shit they get chat banned 1month or something? not end of the world as a punishment


back to the afk lvling , my point on this is what do you want me to manual?
im hitting same tigers since 2008? whats the point we have no mobs no updates no new spawns nothing.
new items? i saw the "idea" of them and they all suck +5 stats etc , warrior scimitar? less stats then shittiest wep i can find on the floor

there is just no content for me (read us old players who have done everything in the game) to manual play
im not in the mood to do 300 sewers to get on avg 1 shield of the accursed wich litterly sucks outside of looks.

sure remove pvp programs make it wipe like back in the day 1 skill 1 lvl for those that use whatever ill just be happier ,

but removing camping? afk lvling? for what? u want people to afk camp like mouse write remove "s pets fetch" he wants us to manually camp a mob 3 months for an item that somone has 50 copies of :skull:
and when it comes to lvling ive said this 9000 times , there is no point in manual lvling , pit gives no exp, sewer give no exp, the buffs to raid does fuckall, we need better content for manual players,  dailies , whatever some catch up mechanics for new players
every week i have a new gambit "im boutta make a name for myself" roll up and ask me for spells that i need to relog 50 chars to find him one and charge them 0 for it since there is no where in the game to get it that makes sense to camp for new players.
the issue with afk is deeper then people cheat cuz they wanna cheat.


when it comes to M's / Gms i see why people have trust issues etc, most of them (all of them) outside of Wu have been involved in some shady shit one way or another , i see alot of blame in game goin for juza/nipsey but from what i understood not sure if true or not he couldnt spawn items , so some other gm had to be involved in that one but thats water under the bridge i guess
now that most of those items are collected in one spot and hidden away , but alot of money been floating around and alot of shady shit happend over the years with the gms could be reason players are so fast on being defensive when they hear gms punishing people again.

Last edited by Salazzar(HM) (Today 4:23 AM)

38 Reply by bullethead123

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Re: Bots

Supla wrote:
bullethead123 wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I didnt want to start a discussion with you again, but you just cant stop lying.

You cant be serious. Firstly, you were the first person trying to get James to ban afking, upgrading server to SSL and such, because you couldnt make bots like others, you even offered him help on bchat in game. Then you got to make your bot, so you started selling it and and never talked about anti cheating again.

Now you say "if you want me remove the pvp bot you just have to say", you were the only person who had a pvp bot for a whole month and sold it along with your program, I asked you to remove that, everyone did, you even said once that you were gonna remove it, but you never did. There was a reason no one used pvp bots over the last 10-20 years, it wasnt knowledge issue, it's common sense. You want to run your afk stuff on pve? Fine, but dont get that shit onto pvp, everyone always known that. How can you say you love occasional pvp wars when all you did on a war was programming ur bot to auto path to spawn and attack everyone who hit you, you never fought a war, you have to understand that, you have no clue how a war on Faldon is

Finally, wtf you talking about GMs who abused their power are still in the current team? You should say names instead of only spread lies.

Well, i didnt want to say that, but you and your ego war ruined and is ruining the game. Game was much better without you, and a lot of ppl will agree with that. Idk if this will make things less worse to you, but it's not only you, i could say a few more names besides you, ppl being toxic 24/7 on chat, ppl saying things that no one should read, if a new player, mainly kids, was trying the game, they would never come back, and several more problems.

I woke up in a strange mood today, and honestly, I don’t care all that much whether bots get banned or not. My point is simple: either ban them all or ban none. Selectively deciding who stays based on how smart you believe their bot is—that's just absurd! Of course, your bots would be safe, right?

But jokes aside, I’m sure your feelings are genuine. After all, if it weren’t for me, your $300 scripts might have reached a much wider audience. So, it’s no surprise you’ve singled me out, while still considering yourself above it all. It’s the same reason you tried to get me banned after the auto-collect incident. Let’s be real—it's about the money.

That said, I’m not going to take full responsibility for the existence of PVP bots. I also won't even start a discussion on your use of Z-hacking and other exploits... There are at least two other bots that use PVP, including one of yours, and probably more out there. I've already agreed that PVP bots should be disallowed. The GMs and mods have tolerated it up until now, just like they did with AFK-ing, which is why its use has grown. So, they share some of the responsibility for the situation.

From the beginning, I asked Ziegen if it was okay to use these bots, and he said it was fine for now—so we rolled with it. Now, it feels like we’re being set up, with fingers being pointed at us for something we were given the green light on. Some of us see through this, while others are falling right into their trap, playing the blame game and hunting witches.

At the end of the day, rise above it, say your piece, and move on with grace. Ultimately, it’s Zer’s decision, and he’ll make whatever choice he believes is best.

Hoping his decision will be announced within the next 3 days as that's when my C ends smile

Last edited by bullethead123 (Today 4:38 AM)

39 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

The irony of this whole situation isn't lost on me. The loudest voices complaining about server stability and game health are often the same ones running multiple clients with bots 24/7. Salazzar mentioned "no content for manual players" while actively contributing to spawn camping with bots. Bullet talks about game sustainability while selling tools that ultimately stress the server - remember those lag spikes last month? Yeah, that wasn't from people actually playing.

Look, I get Mechanic's point about the damage being done already. And yes, Bullet makes a fair point about the reality of modern gaming and time constraints. But let's be real - we're not seeing genuine game growth here. What we're seeing is inflation of numbers: more AFK characters, more botted skills, more farmed items. When's the last time you saw genuine player interaction that wasn't about bot configurations or spawn disputes?

The whole "but botting keeps players in the game" argument is a circular logic trap. We're keeping players who aren't really playing. And yes, I know some of you will say "but what about the social aspect?" - well, that's exactly my point. The social aspect has devolved into comparing bot efficiency and arguing over who's hogging spawns with their AFK army.

Bullet touched on something interesting about money being made, and while that's a reality of any game economy, it shouldn't be the driving force. What we need is to focus on making the game engaging enough that people want to actually play it, not just run it in the background while they play something else.

What pisses me off most isn't even the botting itself - it's the entitled attitude that comes with it. When the server has issues, instead of asking "how can we help fix this?", the first response is always "my bot isn't working properly." That's not a community that cares about the game's future; that's a community that cares about their personal gain.

bullethead123 wrote:

The bot I've created, which many players are using, was originally designed with a primary focus on enhancing the PVE experience. While it includes an option for PVP, this is just one feature among many. However, it seems to have garnered more attention than it deserves.

Personally, if AFK-botting were no longer allowed, I'd have little interest in continuing to play. As mentioned previously, if my presence or contribution isn't wanted, all you have to do is ask, and I will gracefully step away.

From my experience, the majority of players are currently AFK leveling. So, the real decision here is whether to embrace and cater to the majority of players or focus on the vocal minority.

...

I also believe the game would benefit from collaborating with those of us who are actively developing these tools. Instead of seeing bots as a threat, why not view them as a way to enhance the experience for the majority of players?

Finally, I'd like to suggest that Faldon has evolved. The rules of the past were designed for a different era, but now the game has moved into a new phase where AFK leveling and botting have become integral to the player experience.

The mental gymnastics here are Olympic level. You went from "I'll remove features if asked" to "well actually everyone's doing it" real quick. And that bit about GMs abusing power? Rich coming from someone actively selling tools that harm the game.

You talk about "modern gaming trends" and AFK mechanics, but there's a massive difference between idle games built for that purpose and taking a multiplayer game and gutting its actual gameplay. You're not "enhancing the experience" - you're basically turning Faldon into a crypto miner that occasionally shows pixels.

The "majority of players" argument is laughable when some of those "players" are just alt accounts running your scripts. That's not a playerbase, that's a bot farm with a chat function. And that "gracefully step away" threat? Classic manipulation - trying to make it sound like you're doing everyone a favor while basically saying "my way or I leave."

"Collaborate with bot developers"? Are you serious? That's like asking a virus to help design the immune system. You're not enhancing anything - you're profiting off the game's deterioration while pretending you're some kind of community benefactor.

Mechanic wrote:

The issue is we're constricted by the amount of effort that can be exerted to fix this problem. With what I would assume would be similar amounts of effort, to block bots, or give you a new server where you can play with like minded individuals.

While I appreciate you trying to find middle ground here, you're basically suggesting we officially divide the game into "actual players" and "bot runners." The problem is, we've already tried the "let people do whatever" approach - that's how we got here.

A new server sounds nice in theory, but let's be honest - as long as we keep enabling this behavior on the main server, that's where most resources and development time will go. We need to fix the core issue, not create a sanctuary for the few players who still want to actually play the game.

Salazzar(HM) wrote:

back to the afk lvling , my point on this is what do you want me to manual?
im hitting same tigers since 2008? whats the point we have no mobs no updates no new spawns nothing.

"There's nothing to do manually" might be the most self-aware wolf comment I've seen yet. Of course there's nothing to do - because bot runners have completely screwed the economy and progression system. You can't manually farm anything when every spawn has 5 AFK characters camping it 24/7.

You want better content? Great, so do I. But how about we start by making the existing content actually playable by humans again? Hard to justify developing new content when it'll just be botted to death within a week.

And that comment about "every week I have a new gambit" - maybe, just maybe, if we didn't have people running 50 alt accounts, new players might actually have a chance to progress naturally?

Phreak wrote:

Simple automation using an unmodified client and no packet manipulation. The macro/bot has only the information intended to be provided to them by the standard client. Simply put, it's automating the capabilities of a player.

While I appreciate trying to draw technical lines between different types of automation, we're way past that point. The problem isn't the technical implementation - it's the mentality. When people are more invested in their bot configurations than actual gameplay, the exact method they're using to avoid playing the game becomes kind of irrelevant.

"Simple automation" vs "packet manipulation" is just splitting hairs when both end up with the same result: people not actually playing the game.

If we want this game to have any future beyond being a botting playground, something needs to change. And maybe that means some people will leave. But I'd rather have 5 active players than 50 AFK bots.

Look, I've been around since 2001, and anyone who knows me can vouch that I've always tried to help EVERYONE who crossed my path in this game. Didn't matter if you were a newbie or a veteran, if you needed help, I was there. That's what this community used to be about.

But I haven't really been playing lately, and it's not just because of my personal situation. Every time I've logged on in the last month, it's been one big toxic festival. The chat is filled with people bragging about their bot configurations, arguing over spawn rights, or throwing around threats about who's going to get banned or reported.

Remember when we used to have actual conversations? Share stories? Help new players? Now it's just a constant stream of bot settings, macro configurations, and people complaining their automation isn't working properly. Even the simple joy of helping newcomers has been killed because they get immediately overwhelmed by seeing high-level characters standing AFK at every spawn point.

I've spent over two decades trying to keep this community together. Hell, half of you reading this probably got your first set of gear from me or came to me for advice at some point. I still want to help, still want to see this game thrive, but this fucking attitude needs to change.

So yeah, maybe I'm just an old timer yelling at clouds here, but this isn't the Faldon I've spent 20+ years supporting and playing. And until we actually address these issues instead of making excuses for them, I'll probably keep my distance. Because watching something you care about turn into this is just... well, it's fucking sad.

And before anyone starts - yeah, I know exactly what role I've played in all this over the years. The difference is I can actually see when something's fucked up and needs to change, instead of trying to justify it with bullshit about "game evolution" and "player retention." I've seen where this road leads, I don't like it at all.

James wrote:

Spot on. PvP bots are what got my attention. All they do is make the game worse for other people. I cannot see an upside.

I would ask for ideas to detect this behavior, though. How do you detect self-defense vs. griefing?

James, I'll be straight with you because that's how I've always been. This isn't just about PvP bots - it's about what we want Faldon to be. I've been here since 2001, and I've seen every iteration of this botting discussion. Every time we try to find a "middle ground," we end up exactly where we are now: with more sophisticated bots and fewer actual players.

Yes, PvP bots are a problem, but they're just a symptom of a larger issue. We've created an environment where the default response to any challenge is "how can I automate this?" rather than "how can I overcome this?"

You're asking about detecting self-defense vs. griefing, but we need to step back and ask ourselves: why are we trying to find technical solutions to what's fundamentally a community problem? The real issue isn't the bots themselves - it's that we've normalized not actually playing the game.

Look, I get it. You're in a tough position. You've got people threatening to leave if botting is banned, and others threatening to leave if it isn't. But from someone who's literally spent decades helping build this community - sometimes you need to cut out the cancer to save the patient.

Here's what I think needs to happen:
1. Clear, firm rules. No more gray areas about what's "acceptable" automation
2. Actual consequences for breaking these rules
3. Focus on making the game engaging for people who want to PLAY it
4. Complete overhaul of how spawns and progression work to discourage AFKing

Will we lose some "players" if we do this? Yes. But they're not really playing anyway. They're just running programs.

I still believe in this game, James. I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't. But at some point, we need to decide if we want to be a game or a bot hosting service. Because right now, we're failing at being either.

Last edited by Mister Rob (Today 4:56 AM)

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40 Reply by Salazzar(HM)

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Re: Bots

Mister Rob wrote:

  "There's nothing to do manually" might be the most self-aware wolf comment I've seen yet. Of course there's nothing to do - because bot runners have completely screwed the economy and progression system. You can't manually farm anything when every spawn has 5 AFK characters camping it 24/7
You want better content? Great, so do I. But how about we start by making the existing content actually playable by humans again? Hard to justify developing new content when it'll just be botted to death within a week.

And that comment about "every week I have a new gambit" - maybe, just maybe, if we didn't have people running 50 alt accounts, new players might actually have a chance to progress naturally?..



well no , since like you wrote there everyspawn is cap , i ran feline cave that noone is/was/used , and the other spawn i run you know noone else can/is running.
what do you want new players to progress naturally? they cant get 90% of the shit we have cuz someone fucked up the loot tables or spawned it or duped it what are they gonna catch up to? findin a gm who sells it for $?

better content? yes for sure , what humans? and what content? there is nothing to do , dont tell people to do 200 pits to get 10k gold its just plain stupid. also the camping was always here , afk was always here i didnt "bring it" as u see there is clearly people higher lvl then me etc etc and on higher merchant ladder and so on , im just adapting to the env


Mister Rob wrote:

Yes, PvP bots are a problem, but they're just a symptom of a larger issue. We've created an environment where the default response to any challenge is "how can I automate this?" rather than "how can I overcome this?"


speakin of thats rich what u told bullet, didnt u sell programs to automate stuff and skills multiple times? i got receits on this . one thing goin on ive been here since 2001 i dont like automation/programs etc, another to be one of the main ones causing it dont you think?

wu said something i liked his words " i dont think the people selling programs should have a say in this" i would like to borrow that quote from wu on this one rob.

Last edited by Salazzar(HM) (Today 5:06 AM)

41 Reply by bullethead123

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Re: Bots

Mister Rob wrote:

The irony of this whole situation isn't lost on me. The loudest voices complaining about server stability and game health are often the same ones running multiple clients with bots 24/7. Salazzar mentioned "no content for manual players" while actively contributing to spawn camping with bots. Bullet talks about game sustainability while selling tools that ultimately stress the server - remember those lag spikes last month? Yeah, that wasn't from people actually playing.

Look, I get Mechanic's point about the damage being done already. And yes, Bullet makes a fair point about the reality of modern gaming and time constraints. But let's be real - we're not seeing genuine game growth here. What we're seeing is inflation of numbers: more AFK characters, more botted skills, more farmed items. When's the last time you saw genuine player interaction that wasn't about bot configurations or spawn disputes?

The whole "but botting keeps players in the game" argument is a circular logic trap. We're keeping players who aren't really playing. And yes, I know some of you will say "but what about the social aspect?" - well, that's exactly my point. The social aspect has devolved into comparing bot efficiency and arguing over who's hogging spawns with their AFK army.

Bullet touched on something interesting about money being made, and while that's a reality of any game economy, it shouldn't be the driving force. What we need is to focus on making the game engaging enough that people want to actually play it, not just run it in the background while they play something else.

What pisses me off most isn't even the botting itself - it's the entitled attitude that comes with it. When the server has issues, instead of asking "how can we help fix this?", the first response is always "my bot isn't working properly." That's not a community that cares about the game's future; that's a community that cares about their personal gain.

bullethead123 wrote:

The bot I've created, which many players are using, was originally designed with a primary focus on enhancing the PVE experience. While it includes an option for PVP, this is just one feature among many. However, it seems to have garnered more attention than it deserves.

Personally, if AFK-botting were no longer allowed, I'd have little interest in continuing to play. As mentioned previously, if my presence or contribution isn't wanted, all you have to do is ask, and I will gracefully step away.

From my experience, the majority of players are currently AFK leveling. So, the real decision here is whether to embrace and cater to the majority of players or focus on the vocal minority.

...

I also believe the game would benefit from collaborating with those of us who are actively developing these tools. Instead of seeing bots as a threat, why not view them as a way to enhance the experience for the majority of players?

Finally, I'd like to suggest that Faldon has evolved. The rules of the past were designed for a different era, but now the game has moved into a new phase where AFK leveling and botting have become integral to the player experience.

The mental gymnastics here are Olympic level. You went from "I'll remove features if asked" to "well actually everyone's doing it" real quick. And that bit about GMs abusing power? Rich coming from someone actively selling tools that harm the game.

You talk about "modern gaming trends" and AFK mechanics, but there's a massive difference between idle games built for that purpose and taking a multiplayer game and gutting its actual gameplay. You're not "enhancing the experience" - you're basically turning Faldon into a crypto miner that occasionally shows pixels.

The "majority of players" argument is laughable when some of those "players" are just alt accounts running your scripts. That's not a playerbase, that's a bot farm with a chat function. And that "gracefully step away" threat? Classic manipulation - trying to make it sound like you're doing everyone a favor while basically saying "my way or I leave."

"Collaborate with bot developers"? Are you serious? That's like asking a virus to help design the immune system. You're not enhancing anything - you're profiting off the game's deterioration while pretending you're some kind of community benefactor.

Mechanic wrote:

The issue is we're constricted by the amount of effort that can be exerted to fix this problem. With what I would assume would be similar amounts of effort, to block bots, or give you a new server where you can play with like minded individuals.

While I appreciate you trying to find middle ground here, you're basically suggesting we officially divide the game into "actual players" and "bot runners." The problem is, we've already tried the "let people do whatever" approach - that's how we got here.

A new server sounds nice in theory, but let's be honest - as long as we keep enabling this behavior on the main server, that's where most resources and development time will go. We need to fix the core issue, not create a sanctuary for the few players who still want to actually play the game.

Salazzar(HM) wrote:

back to the afk lvling , my point on this is what do you want me to manual?
im hitting same tigers since 2008? whats the point we have no mobs no updates no new spawns nothing.

"There's nothing to do manually" might be the most self-aware wolf comment I've seen yet. Of course there's nothing to do - because bot runners have completely screwed the economy and progression system. You can't manually farm anything when every spawn has 5 AFK characters camping it 24/7.

You want better content? Great, so do I. But how about we start by making the existing content actually playable by humans again? Hard to justify developing new content when it'll just be botted to death within a week.

And that comment about "every week I have a new gambit" - maybe, just maybe, if we didn't have people running 50 alt accounts, new players might actually have a chance to progress naturally?

Phreak wrote:

Simple automation using an unmodified client and no packet manipulation. The macro/bot has only the information intended to be provided to them by the standard client. Simply put, it's automating the capabilities of a player.

While I appreciate trying to draw technical lines between different types of automation, we're way past that point. The problem isn't the technical implementation - it's the mentality. When people are more invested in their bot configurations than actual gameplay, the exact method they're using to avoid playing the game becomes kind of irrelevant.

"Simple automation" vs "packet manipulation" is just splitting hairs when both end up with the same result: people not actually playing the game.

If we want this game to have any future beyond being a botting playground, something needs to change. And maybe that means some people will leave. But I'd rather have 5 active players than 50 AFK bots.

Look, I've been around since 2001, and anyone who knows me can vouch that I've always tried to help EVERYONE who crossed my path in this game. Didn't matter if you were a newbie or a veteran, if you needed help, I was there. That's what this community used to be about.

But I haven't really been playing lately, and it's not just because of my personal situation. Every time I've logged on in the last month, it's been one big toxic festival. The chat is filled with people bragging about their bot configurations, arguing over spawn rights, or throwing around threats about who's going to get banned or reported.

Remember when we used to have actual conversations? Share stories? Help new players? Now it's just a constant stream of bot settings, macro configurations, and people complaining their automation isn't working properly. Even the simple joy of helping newcomers has been killed because they get immediately overwhelmed by seeing high-level characters standing AFK at every spawn point.

I've spent over two decades trying to keep this community together. Hell, half of you reading this probably got your first set of gear from me or came to me for advice at some point. I still want to help, still want to see this game thrive, but this fucking attitude needs to change.

So yeah, maybe I'm just an old timer yelling at clouds here, but this isn't the Faldon I've spent 20+ years supporting and playing. And until we actually address these issues instead of making excuses for them, I'll probably keep my distance. Because watching something you care about turn into this is just... well, it's fucking sad.

And before anyone starts - yeah, I know exactly what role I've played in all this over the years. The difference is I can actually see when something's fucked up and needs to change, instead of trying to justify it with bullshit about "game evolution" and "player retention." I've seen where this road leads, I don't like it at all.

James wrote:

Spot on. PvP bots are what got my attention. All they do is make the game worse for other people. I cannot see an upside.

I would ask for ideas to detect this behavior, though. How do you detect self-defense vs. griefing?

James, I'll be straight with you because that's how I've always been. This isn't just about PvP bots - it's about what we want Faldon to be. I've been here since 2001, and I've seen every iteration of this botting discussion. Every time we try to find a "middle ground," we end up exactly where we are now: with more sophisticated bots and fewer actual players.

Yes, PvP bots are a problem, but they're just a symptom of a larger issue. We've created an environment where the default response to any challenge is "how can I automate this?" rather than "how can I overcome this?"

You're asking about detecting self-defense vs. griefing, but we need to step back and ask ourselves: why are we trying to find technical solutions to what's fundamentally a community problem? The real issue isn't the bots themselves - it's that we've normalized not actually playing the game.

Look, I get it. You're in a tough position. You've got people threatening to leave if botting is banned, and others threatening to leave if it isn't. But from someone who's literally spent decades helping build this community - sometimes you need to cut out the cancer to save the patient.

Here's what I think needs to happen:
1. Clear, firm rules. No more gray areas about what's "acceptable" automation
2. Actual consequences for breaking these rules
3. Focus on making the game engaging for people who want to PLAY it
4. Complete overhaul of how spawns and progression work to discourage AFKing

Will we lose some "players" if we do this? Yes. But they're not really playing anyway. They're just running programs.

I still believe in this game, James. I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't. But at some point, we need to decide if we want to be a game or a bot hosting service. Because right now, we're failing at being either.


I wasn’t planning to respond further, but I feel the need to clear up a misconception. My bot costs less than a McDonald’s family meal, which is insignificant compared to the countless hours I’ve invested in its development. I receive small donations from users who benefit from my work, but in total, I’ve made less than $200 over the past three months—while others charge $200+ for a single-use script. I'm told you yourself charge $300 for your own bots you've made. To be clear, I don’t do this for the money. The donations are simply a token of appreciation, not a financial goal. Turning my bot off would have no financial impact on me whatsoever.

If I were after money, I could easily take on a contracting job and make 10 times the amount with half the effort. But for me, it’s about the joy of developing something new, pushing boundaries, and improving performance purely for my own satisfaction. If others benefit from it, that’s just a bonus.

I agree with most of what you’ve said, but I wanted to clear this up now. Some of your posts make it seem like I’m raking in thousands from the game, which is far from the truth.

Last edited by bullethead123 (Today 5:12 AM)

42 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

Salazzar(HM) wrote:

wu said something i liked his words " i dont think the people selling programs should have a say in this" i would like to borrow that quote from wu on this one rob.

Since you want to make this personal instead of addressing the actual issues - sure, let's go there. In 20+ years I've helped hundreds of players with gear, skills, quests, and general gameplay. I've spent countless hours helping newbies understand the game, running them through dungeons, and making sure they had what they needed to progress. I've contributed to events, helped maintain community resources, and actually tried to make the game better for everyone. Made guides, websites and the original Wiki which Mechanic has cleaned up perfectly, kudos for that.

And yes, I've been involved with automation too - I literally acknowledged that in my previous post. The difference is I can actually see how it's killing the game instead of making excuses.

well no , since like you wrote there everyspawn is cap , i ran feline cave that noone is/was/used , and the other spawn i run you know noone else can/is running.

This right here is exactly what's wrong with the game right now. You're basically saying "I'm not part of the problem because I'm only bottlenecking these specific spawns." Then in the same breath, you complain there's nothing to do manually? Of course there isn't - because people are running automated characters 24/7 on every worthwhile spawn in the game.

The game wasn't designed around bots - we twisted it into this state. Now everyone's using that twisted state to justify more botting. It's a cycle that's killing any chance of real gameplay, and hiding behind "but everyone else is doing it" or "there's nothing else to do" is just making it worse.

If we actually want this game to survive, we need to break this cycle. That means addressing the botting issue head-on, not making excuses for it or trying to deflect by bringing up ancient history. But I guess it's easier to dig up old dirt than admit your current actions are part of what's suffocating this game.

And let me be crystal clear here - I know exactly what role I've played in all of this over the years. I'm not some saint trying to take the moral high ground. I've been involved in pretty much every aspect of automation in this game you can think of. That's precisely why I can see how fucked up the situation has become. When someone who's been neck-deep in this stuff is telling you it's gone too far, maybe it's worth listening to instead of trying to play "gotcha" with old receipts.

Can we get back to the actual topic of how to fix this mess? Because right now, all this finger-pointing is just proving my point about how toxic the community has become.

Last edited by Mister Rob (Today 5:21 AM)

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43 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

bullethead123 wrote:

I wasn't planning to respond further, but I feel the need to clear up a misconception. My bot costs less than a McDonald's family meal, which is insignificant compared to the countless hours I've invested in its development. I receive small donations from users who benefit from my work, but in total, I've made less than $200 over the past three months

Bullet, I wasn't trying to paint you as some major profiteer - I apologize if it came across that way. The money aspect was just an example of how backwards this whole situation has become, where we're more focused on justifying and monetizing automation than actually playing the game.

Whether it's $200 or $2000 isn't really the point. The fact that we're even having a discussion about bot pricing and comparing different automation tools shows how far we've strayed from what this game should be about.

If I were after money, I could easily take on a contracting job and make 10 times the amount with half the effort. But for me, it's about the joy of developing something new, pushing boundaries, and improving performance purely for my own satisfaction.

I get the technical challenge aspect - truly, I do. But pushing boundaries and improving performance should be about making the game better for everyone, not just making more efficient ways to not play it.

And look, let me be completely transparent here - yes, I've provided services and macros too. But there's a world of difference between basic capture/playback macros for some skills and cosmetics like reputation or helping someone through BSE progression, and full automation tools that run characters 24/7. What I've done are simple tools that still require actual player involvement - no packet injection, no complex automation, just basic quality-of-life stuff.

There's nothing particularly revolutionary about what any of us are doing here. These aren't groundbreaking technological achievements - they're just increasingly sophisticated ways to avoid playing the game. And that's the real issue. It's not about who's making what money or who's using what technology - it's about how we've collectively decided that automating gameplay is more important than actually playing the game.

Salazzar(HM) wrote:

better content? yes for sure , what humans? and what content? there is nothing to do , dont tell people to do 200 pits to get 10k gold its just plain stupid. also the camping was always here , afk was always here i didnt "bring it" as u see there is clearly people higher lvl then me etc etc and on higher merchant ladder and so on , im just adapting to the env

You know what? You actually make a valid point about the history here. Yes, camping has always been a thing. Yes, AFKing existed before. Yes, the drop rates were always brutal, and yes, some GMs absolutely fucked the economy with spawned items. I'm not going to pretend any of that isn't true - I was there, I saw it all happen.

But here's where you're missing the point: Just because something was always broken doesn't mean we should break it even more. There's a massive difference between the old days of camping a spot at 0.003% drop rate or basic AFKing, and today's automated armies running 24/7 with guaranteed drops and levels.

You say you're "just adapting to the environment" - but you're actively making that environment worse. It's like seeing a house on fire and deciding to pour gasoline on it because "well, it was already burning." The fact that others did sketchy stuff in the past doesn't justify making the present even worse.

And let's be real about the "nothing to do" argument. There's nothing to do BECAUSE of the current bot situation. When every viable spawn has automated characters camping it 24/7, when the economy is completely warped by bot-farmed items, when PvP has devolved into automated scripts - of course there's nothing meaningful left to do manually.

You're using the symptoms to justify the disease. Yes, the game has problems that need fixing. Yes, there's a trust issue because of past GM actions. But using that as an excuse to make everything exponentially worse with automation isn't the answer - it's just making sure nobody can enjoy the game without joining the bot arms race.

Last edited by Mister Rob (Today 5:52 AM)

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44 Reply by Yakuzaa

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Re: Bots

Awesome topic

45 Reply by Yakuzaa

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Re: Bots

Funny how robs going for justice and yet is the destroyer of all hammers of justice.

46 Reply by Mister Rob

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Re: Bots

Yakuzaa wrote:

Funny how robs going for justice and yet is the destroyer of all hammers of justice.

It almost seems I have one left; the true Hammer of Justice.

Evil Devil - Prometherion

47 Reply by Salazzar(HM)

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Re: Bots

Mister Rob wrote:
Salazzar(HM) wrote:

wu said something i liked his words " i dont think the people selling programs should have a say in this" i would like to borrow that quote from wu on this one rob.

Since you want to make this personal instead of addressing the actual issues - sure, let's go there. In 20+ years I've helped hundreds of players with gear, skills, quests, and general gameplay. I've spent countless hours helping newbies understand the game, running them through dungeons, and making sure they had what they needed to progress. I've contributed to events, helped maintain community resources, and actually tried to make the game better for everyone. Made guides, websites and the original Wiki which Mechanic has cleaned up perfectly, kudos for that.

And yes, I've been involved with automation too - I literally acknowledged that in my previous post. The difference is I can actually see how it's killing the game instead of making excuses.

well no , since like you wrote there everyspawn is cap , i ran feline cave that noone is/was/used , and the other spawn i run you know noone else can/is running.

This right here is exactly what's wrong with the game right now. You're basically saying "I'm not part of the problem because I'm only bottlenecking these specific spawns." Then in the same breath, you complain there's nothing to do manually? Of course there isn't - because people are running automated characters 24/7 on every worthwhile spawn in the game.

The game wasn't designed around bots - we twisted it into this state. Now everyone's using that twisted state to justify more botting. It's a cycle that's killing any chance of real gameplay, and hiding behind "but everyone else is doing it" or "there's nothing else to do" is just making it worse.

If we actually want this game to survive, we need to break this cycle. That means addressing the botting issue head-on, not making excuses for it or trying to deflect by bringing up ancient history. But I guess it's easier to dig up old dirt than admit your current actions are part of what's suffocating this game.

And let me be crystal clear here - I know exactly what role I've played in all of this over the years. I'm not some saint trying to take the moral high ground. I've been involved in pretty much every aspect of automation in this game you can think of. That's precisely why I can see how fucked up the situation has become. When someone who's been neck-deep in this stuff is telling you it's gone too far, maybe it's worth listening to instead of trying to play "gotcha" with old receipts.

Can we get back to the actual topic of how to fix this mess? Because right now, all this finger-pointing is just proving my point about how toxic the community has become.

saying you didnt wanna make it personal when saying im capping every spawn is kinda personal but like i said , i dont see the issue since everyone that easked me to use the spawn got yes for answere, same goes for every other spawn ive used noone have dmed me saying they wanna lvl in a spot and i tell them to fuck off , helping players? yea sure ive done same forever doesnt justify the selling bots / i never sold or contributed to the issue at hand ,  but yes acknowledgin being part of the issue then acting like your against it makes same sense to me as me saying idc if ppl bot or not ,

like u say lets get to the topic of fixin the mess , we stop all programs today, what have you fixed? will you see more ppl doing pit to get 0? or sewers to get 0? or raid to get 0? or camp X mob to get item ppl are giving out for free? what have you fixed with stopping it thats the part i dont understand, you talk about fixin an issue that has no simple fix,  my question is

i have every item in the game minus 2-3 , what is fixed if we remove afking today ?
will the new players catch up to me? no not if u give them 10 years even then i doubt they are there.
will the items/economy go back to normal? no it wont whats normal anyway? game is 20 years old there is 100+ mill of gold in the game but 0 goldsinks no matter how many time we explained this ,

will you see players stop botting but lvl manually? no you wont these are the same players that are lvl 300 after 1000 years it wont fix anything


yes i make valid point of camping is pointless since noone in their right mind will camp a 0.003 item manually its not that deep, the game has 30 players online and 7 actual humans for a reason , THERE IS NO CONTENT for the good players

for the death of me there is nothing to gain from pit, sewers, raid and so on , there is no war games / pvp rewards there is no new spawns to "manual" its the same tigers spawns we been hitting for ages , u say yea remove bots but what have u fixed? de nada. 

with that being said im up for eiether way this goes i just love the logic here

48 Reply by bullethead123

  • bullethead123
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  • Registered: August 3rd, 2024
  • Posts: 22

Re: Bots

For me, automation is playing the game. While running my bots, I’ve spent more time engaging with the game—whether it’s chatting with other players or simply observing—than I ever did playing manually. That’s just my experience, and I understand it may not be the same for everyone. However, I disagree with the notion that "automation = not playing." We all have our own ways of enjoying the game, and unless it directly affects others, like with PVP bots, I don’t see the big issue—especially in this day and age.

What I find contradictory in this debate is that nearly everyone here has AFK'd at some point, half of you have made and even sold your scripts (for a lot more than I do!) and it wasn’t a problem until “someone made a better one than me.” The real issue isn’t botting itself—it’s that a select few players want to maintain dominance, regardless of how others experience the game. I stand by what I said: if AFKing isn’t wanted and Zer wants me gone, I’ll step aside gracefully. I won’t even try to do it discreetly, though I know many others will. From the users of my bot, I know I’m not alone in how I feel.

So, ultimately, it boils down to two groups of players enjoying the game. One side is simply jealous of the other, and the real question is: which group will Zer choose to cater to?

On a final note, now that Zer has officially stated he's cracking down on PVP bots, I’ve already disabled that feature from my bot. I was ready to do this a month ago, but I held off because Ziegen had given the green light at the time.