1

Topic: Presidential debates

September 30th, 2004. The day that the election probably became close again.  Potentially the end of George W. Bush.  The first debate marked the theme Bush's presidency should be famous for: the stench of failure.  The stench of alienation, the odor of lies and that revolting smell of blood that comes only from quagmire. 

The above is how the day will be remembered in reference to election 2004.  Bush got his ass kicked and he got it kicked bad.  If you don't believe me, ask the AOL poll right after the debate, the Gallup poll, the LA times poll or the ABC news poll.  Conveniently, FOX news did not do a poll over this. 

Gallup now has Bush and Kerry running even.  Newsweek has Kerry leading again for the first time in months. 

The next debate is a voter roundtable sort of event, where the candidates are asked questions by undecided voters.  Bush isn't quick on his feet, as we all saw at the numerous press conferences he held.  It is my opinion he is toast here.

The third and final debate, the domestic issues.  It is hard to see George W. Bush winning out here.  Kerry can outbid him on tax cuts with the idea that Bush gave too much $ to his rich buddies, something most people agree with.  Bush has a deficit on his hands, a pretty shaky economy that is currently under siege of interest rates and energy concerns and an ailing healthcare system.  These are the Democrats core issues.  Bush's credibility has always been low on them, only followed by his approval rating on them.  His record is pathetic and he already lost one debate.

I want you conservatives here to tell me honestly how you think Bush will come back and win these debates, especially since he was supposed to have been at his best ballgame on the foreign policy debate.  I see this race coming down to the needle now, although that dynamic should have been clear from the beginning.

Sorry to have doubted you, John(s).  As for you, FB, try to answer my question please smile

2

Re: Presidential debates

Most conservatives came into the debate thinking that Bush wasnt going to win.. Its hard to debate a senator, let alone a 6 term senator.

Luckily it comes down to BG states.. Which have came out unchanged from what I see in polls.. Infact Bush increased his lead in Ohio and brought PA closer and closer into leaning towards him.. NJ is in a Statistical deadheat, and NH is leaning Bush by larger numbers every poll.. All after the debate..

I personally saw another picture at the debate, I believe Bush did a better job and won.. but Most people don't see it that way. I say this because Kerry answered none of my questions at all, he still appears to me to be a flip flopper..

All 3 of these debates are must wins for Kerry, he loses any he loses the election.. However Bush doesnt need to win any of them.. Of course if he fucks up bad that would hurt..

If I were Bush, even though its a real dirty political trick, I would bring 9/11 up if Kerry questions about Jobs. Since Most jobs that were lost under Bush were lost with in the first month after 9/11.. For Kerry to attack that statement could hurt him politically. Could backfire also if Bush doesnt execute it correctly..





Then again Cat.. You know damn well Karl has something under his sleeve..

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

3

Re: Presidential debates

Since Most jobs that were lost under Bush were lost with in the first month after 9/11..

ummm portland or has the lasrgest unemployment rate in the country....how can a 9-11 connection be made?

http://www.southern.com/southern/band/CURSI/pics/cursive_index.jpg[/img]

4

Re: Presidential debates

Latest Fox polls had Bush and Kerry running even, 49%/49%. This was as of last night.

"We are a mass of seething fury, elected as your judge and jury. You stand accused of murder, vanity, and evil crimes against humanity."-Andy Martin

5

Re: Presidential debates

Penny.. im talkign about the National issue not stateside issues.. The Gov. of the state could have equal blame in jobloss. Everyone is to quick to blame the president. In Ohio our job losses are a result from our Gov.. man I hate that fucker..

More americans are working than ever before, and NBC just reported that the unemployment rate is lower than the 1990's average.. So Jobs arent a huge issue imo..

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

6

Re: Presidential debates

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/FirebornIsMighty/electionover2.jpg

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

7

Re: Presidential debates

I'm sorry but when every other poll shows them being even and then you show up with this RCP thing, you must know that they are biased.

"We are a mass of seething fury, elected as your judge and jury. You stand accused of murder, vanity, and evil crimes against humanity."-Andy Martin

8

Re: Presidential debates

To beging with the RCP is an average of all these nationally released polls..

Secondly this just takes the State Polls and puts them into perspective... This isnt a national poll.

Thirdly.. the pew poll just came out and it has Bush ahead by 5% still..

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

9

Re: Presidential debates

Latest Fox polls had Bush and Kerry running even, 49%/49%. This was as of last night.

Last night being: Sunday, October 3rd.

"We are a mass of seething fury, elected as your judge and jury. You stand accused of murder, vanity, and evil crimes against humanity."-Andy Martin

10

Re: Presidential debates

Fireborn, do you spend all day searching for the most unrealist Bush-slanted things available?

11

Re: Presidential debates

no.. lol.. you guys just seem not to want to accept the fact that Kerry may have gained ground in the national poll but gained no support in the States he needs.

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

12

Re: Presidential debates

"No support" simply is not true.

13

Re: Presidential debates

1) What the hell is RCP?

2) Averaging polls together makes no sense since most are conducted in completely different manners

3) Most of that is old data from BEFORE the debate

4) It includes only polls that benefitted Bush, by and large

So try picking a less, well biased site and try getting updated data.  Other than that you are only looking stupid again, FB.

14

Re: Presidential debates

1) It averages all polls together
2) It just adds all of those asked and who they said they would vote for
3) All of the data was AFTER the debate
4) This site is linked on the Kerry Edward site and not on the Bush Cheney Site. It uses polls from EVERY source it can find.


Im sorry Catbert.. For know ABSOLUTELY nothing about the site I used, you are the only one that appears to be an idiot. The site is not "biased" like you claim, but if the polls dont go your way it has to be biased correct?

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

15

Re: Presidential debates

I am more than certain that in a few minutes FB will post here proclaiming some sweeping victory for Bush based on MSNBC's conservative talking head and some FOX news web poll.  Let me just say that the real numbers that are conducted of people that actually watched the debate, of an even audience and not just conservative web viewers that watch the shameless Orwellian propaganda that is FOX is what will matter.

The real verdict isn't out yet but my personal feeling is Bush held his own.

Moving on to FB's prior posting:

The site is biased because it calls many swing states for Bush such as PA, OH and Florida and many other states.  Bush was only leading in most of those states for awhile.

That is not new polling data (as in after the first debate or at least after the month of October had started) as Bush only had that sort of a lead in mid-August.

If you are comfortable with the site you used, why not post it?  The link to the image is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v283/ … nover2.jpg .

You say you got this off a Kerry/Edwards page, now prove it.  To me that looks either like you made the image or you stole it off another page, so either show the original source or I will assume you created it.

16

Re: Presidential debates

I hosted the image because the graph was done in a table where they shaded the box a certain color it wasnt an image.

I just hit Print screen and popped it on pain.. HENCE why RCP is clearly cut off at the top.. And the other one I posted from the site has a e-mail this link to a friend on it..

It called Ohio a swing state because of the 8.4 point lead he averages in Ohio.. He also has a 5.2 average lead in PA.. however I know for a fact PA was put into the tossup yesterday or teh day before.

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

17

Re: Presidential debates

So yeah, most polls show Kerry won the third debate.  The ABC poll was only by 1, but their sample was only 30% Democrat and 38% Republican.  So much for the myth of the liberal media, I guess.

FOX punditry proclaimed Bush, for the third time in a row, to be the winner.  Meanwhile outside the ivory tower, the people decided for the third consecutive time that Bush lost.  FOX News is on the right banks of American politics, it is a flip flopper, it is weak on defense and out of touch with mainstream thought.

18

Re: Presidential debates

Most recent poll: Bush:50%, Kerry:47%, The other guy who no one votes for:--(Idontknow)

It is high time I put something intelligent here.

19

Re: Presidential debates

Most recent poll I have seen had Bush up by 8... Gallup...

I don't question my sexuality, my sexuality questions me.
Self Gratification is God's greatest gift to man.

20

Re: Presidential debates

Most recent poll: Bush:50%, Kerry:47%, The other guy who no one votes for:--(Idontknow)

Ralph Nader maybe?

The guy the Democrats blame for Bush being in power now?

Theology: The study of elaborate verbal disguises for non-ideas

21

Re: Presidential debates

I said I don't know cause I don't think he has all 3% of the vote.

It is high time I put something intelligent here.