1 Topic by Supla

  • Supla
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Topic: Weapons Attack Rating

We all know most weapons ar doesnt make sense at all, i.e fastest weapons in game are two handed, most one handed weapons are as slow as the slowest two handed weapons. It would be cool if things like that were balanced, I'm pretty sure it's really quick to implement that once we've all decided weapons new ar, matter of minutes. Im here to suggest some new weapons ar, feel free to reply to this topic with your ideas/opinions.

(if new ar is empty, current ar is okay)

weapon             / current atk speed   / new ar    / reason
katana              / 0.3s                      /
master sword    / 0.4s                      /
sword of kings   / 0.8s                      / 0.6s        / 1 min dmg and it looks like a weapon that should attack faster heh
Mourningstar     / 0.8s                      / 0.5s        / one handed weapon, cant be that slow (0.1s difference when compared to arctic blade) also we need a one handed weapon like msword (good dmg + fast attack)
Zeus' Fury         / 0.8s                      / 0.4s        / same reason as mourningstar, also zeus fury dmg is lower
divine sword      / 0.8s                      / 0.6s        / lowest dmg compared to all mentioned above (except katana)
arctic blade       / 0.9s                      /
skull blade        / 1s                         / 0.8s        / lower dmg when compared to AB, and it needs to be more useful, not only rare
caledfwlch        / its data is not in the website encyclopedia, but ive tested it and its atk speed is 950ms - 1s, thats okay
thors hammer   / 0.8s      (0.8s is okay for a hammer, but it would still make sense if it was 0.7s)
assassin's blade / 0.5s                      / 0.3s        / higher min dmg than katana, but lower max dmg, 0.3s match with it i think

i was planning to add way more weapons to this list, but i just got too tired, maybe later.

Also there are some items like wyvern claws that were pretty useful in the past, wclaws atk speed was way faster, now it's just the same as any other pair of gloves (0.3s), even though their dmg is still good. Maybe change their atk speed to 0.2s idk.
Btw, these suggestions would let us use other weapons too and not only master sword, all other weapons are kinda useless at the moment, we need more options when choosing a weapon.

2 Reply by travis

  • travis
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

I think attack speeds are mostly fine.
I think Mourning star should not be changed. It is a one handed weapon like you said, and I get your points, but think about throwing around a big mace and chain with one hand IRL, shits going to take more than a second to do the 2nd hit lol. Now if you weren't wielding a shield, i think lowering the ar by .1s or is reasonable.

I think some of the suggestions would really completely change the game. Z fury would then be the best weapon in game likely. I think a change to .6s if anything would be closer to a balance. This considers damage and such.

The only thing I agree on is the ones without changes and the skull blade change. The SB is nothing special but to look at, and maybe no repair. The change you suggested seems balanced and the damage is quite low compered to AB and other similar top tier items.

3 Reply by Mechanic

  • Mechanic
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

I agree with Supla's theory here - The issue is no one item should be the best for everything. Right now MSword is far and away the best item for all use cases. I think the issue here is that nothing else is particularly useful for anything but looks when you compare it to MSword.

Out of retirement... for now.

4 Reply by Supla

  • Supla
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

travis wrote:

I think attack speeds are mostly fine.
I think Mourning star should not be changed. It is a one handed weapon like you said, and I get your points, but think about throwing around a big mace and chain with one hand IRL, shits going to take more than a second to do the 2nd hit lol. Now if you weren't wielding a shield, i think lowering the ar by .1s or is reasonable.

I think some of the suggestions would really completely change the game. Z fury would then be the best weapon in game likely. I think a change to .6s if anything would be closer to a balance. This considers damage and such.

The only thing I agree on is the ones without changes and the skull blade change. The SB is nothing special but to look at, and maybe no repair. The change you suggested seems balanced and the damage is quite low compered to AB and other similar top tier items.

Yea, I kinda agree with you, but to agree with you i'd have to request a nerf to msword, because it's fast af. And as Mechanic said, none weapon should be the best for everything, we need more reasons to use other weapons and not only master sword. We only change weapons for their look atm. ZF has lower max dmg and higher min dmg when compared to msword (but it's way rarer), so it wouldnt be a problem to change it to 0.4s if we have a msword with 0.4s atk speed, but i agree it would be op since u can equip a shield with it, maybe 0.5s or 0.6s. Anyway i think one handed weapons should be faster, not all, what u said about mourningstar makes sense. SoK and Divine Sword have to be faster too, way lower average dmg when compared to msword and half of its atk rating, thats bad af

Btw, i also thought of those suggestions without having to nerf msword, we would be balancing other weapons according to msword power.

Last edited by Supla (September 9th, 2024 4:06 PM)

5 Reply by travis

  • travis
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

Mechanic wrote:

I agree with Supla's theory here - The issue is no one item should be the best for everything. Right now MSword is far and away the best item for all use cases. I think the issue here is that nothing else is particularly useful for anything but looks when you compare it to MSword.

I am not sure if you guys are looking at damage with this msword issue at all. It is 9-20 with ar .4s then AB is 25-42 ar .9s.
This makes the Msword very good, but not great in all use cases at all. U can 1 hit so many more Mobs with AB, the min damage is higher than max for Msword. I would even be willing to chance bet that hitting over a 1 min period with each weapon, the AB will do more total damage. It might be close though with RNG.

If this were the case, everyone would be running around with Mswords, and they are not. It does seem popular right now though, more than I think it has ever been, and they are fairly easy to get a hold of. So that is kind of a good thing for players.

6 Reply by Mechanic

  • Mechanic
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

travis wrote:
Mechanic wrote:

I agree with Supla's theory here - The issue is no one item should be the best for everything. Right now MSword is far and away the best item for all use cases. I think the issue here is that nothing else is particularly useful for anything but looks when you compare it to MSword.

I am not sure if you guys are looking at damage with this msword issue at all. It is 9-20 with ar .4s then AB is 25-42 ar .9s.
This makes the Msword very good, but not great in all use cases at all. U can 1 hit so many more Mobs with AB, the min damage is higher than max for Msword. I would even be willing to chance bet that hitting over a 1 min period with each weapon, the AB will do more total damage. It might be close though with RNG.

If this were the case, everyone would be running around with Mswords, and they are not. It does seem popular right now though, more than I think it has ever been, and they are fairly easy to get a hold of. So that is kind of a good thing for players.

The thing you're missing is that max damage is mostly irrelevant because of the way % works. Pretty much min damage and attack speed are the two most relevant stats over a large enough sample size. The ideal weapon has a high attack speed and higher than the average minimum damage, which is why MSword outpaces everything by a wide margin.

To put it simply, I'd rather deal 400 damage twice at .4s per swing than deal 200 damage and 1000 damage  at .9s a swing.

Out of retirement... for now.
  • Supla
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

travis wrote:
Mechanic wrote:

I agree with Supla's theory here - The issue is no one item should be the best for everything. Right now MSword is far and away the best item for all use cases. I think the issue here is that nothing else is particularly useful for anything but looks when you compare it to MSword.

I am not sure if you guys are looking at damage with this msword issue at all. It is 9-20 with ar .4s then AB is 25-42 ar .9s.
This makes the Msword very good, but not great in all use cases at all. U can 1 hit so many more Mobs with AB, the min damage is higher than max for Msword. I would even be willing to chance bet that hitting over a 1 min period with each weapon, the AB will do more total damage. It might be close though with RNG.

If this were the case, everyone would be running around with Mswords, and they are not. It does seem popular right now though, more than I think it has ever been, and they are fairly easy to get a hold of. So that is kind of a good thing for players.

I surely forgot msword max dmg was only 20 lol, but it's still the best. There's no weapon with 100% chance to 1 hit monsters, no matter your % dmg, since min dmg doesnt scale with str, so it's always low. AB min dmg is nearly 50 with 1500 str, if you have +600% holy dmg it is 350 min dmg, if you have 300% fire/elec dmg thats 200 min dmg. So if you consider average to max dmg you'll always 1 hit monsters with both weapons, and min dmg will not 1 hit monsters with both weapons, so the best atk speed wins. (I know some AB lower hits will one shot monsters and it will one shot monsters more often than msword, but average dmg is the highest probability here)

Last edited by Supla (September 10th, 2024 10:17 AM)

8 Reply by travis

  • travis
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Re: Weapons Attack Rating

That is a fair argument, but you can do way more % for holy damage at least 1k, and u can if not nearly always 1 hit a wide range of mobs, especially undead. When I do pit, I do 1 hit 99% of the time, and now with 2500str It is probably even more.

Then yeah, its unlikely u will be hitting that low often, or you could argue the same with Msword, and add 1-2 more hits on top of the 2 required.

I will stand my ground that I think in most of my use cases, AB is better than Msword, but not always. And that is my opinion. I don't expect everyone to share it. But I do think saying Msword is the ultimate weapon right now is a bit out of reach. It is great, but not from every angle as I have given an example of.